Clive&Fernand, Clive&Lukas… as both need a lot of fixing!

Clive/Fernand:

What I like: I sympathize with both of them more than might be expected as a classist quasi-aristocrat, and their pre-game past is an intriguing prospect.

What I don’t like: Clive is ridiculously dense. Also, Fernand’s behavior being partially motivated by internalized homophobia and the societal pressure to be straight would have been much more interesting if that were actually in the game (you know, like Leon?) and not just a reasonable headcanon.

How I ship it: I don’t see it really working even in a no-war AU unless Clive is also into guys, and even then they’re not Forsyth and Python – they have the future of their noble houses to secure. Maybe an OT3 with Mathilda? If Clive could wrap his head around the concept?

Clive/Lukas:

What I like: Not much honestly, but on a meta level Lukas’s admiration of Clive benefits from the contrast with Forsyth’s comically exaggerated exuberance.

What I don’t like: It’s a guy with homoromatic leanings crushing on an oblivious straight guy who’s already found his True Love – what’s not to hate? The total lack of interaction with Celica’s group is also a missed opportunity; Leon/Valbar is going through the very same motions but without any of the Deliverance’s characteristic coyness.

How I ship it: OT3 with Forsyth and Python until Lukas can gradually get over his crush. He’s well on his way there after his various supports. It *might* work with an ace non-aro Lukas paired with a more understanding Clive, like a gay version of courtly love where there’s (adulterous) adoration without sex, but would that really be satisfying for Lukas?

Clive and his lady and entourage for the meme

Clive/Mathilda
D – I’m neutral on it

Glurgy in a way that reminds me unpleasantly of how a certain man formerly of my acquaintance would be with his girlfriends, but they seem to deserve each other for better or worse. I can’t even headcanon Mathilda wanting him for his money or because he’s amazing in the sack, the former because she comes from a wealthy family herself and the latter because of course he isn’t. I suppose she finds his indefatigable mediocrity endearing.

Clive/Clair
F – NOTP

I don’t have any moral quandaries about incest, but for God’s sake have it at least be interesting and not a copy/paste of Clarine and Klein.

Clive/Fernand
C – Not a bad ship

…with the caveat that it only “works” as an unfulfilled tragedy that would have been much better had Fernand been less of an ass. Oh, well – Fernand thoroughly gets his comeuppance via his replacement mancrush, and Clive is probably just as clueless as ever.

Clive/Lukas
E – I don’t really like it

A queer man not-so-subtly crushing on a straight man…yeah, no. This trope sucks pretty much no matter how it’s played, which is also why I don’t much care for what the game is (probably) going for with Leon and Valbar. Good on Lukas for growing past it and making new friends though, as I don’t see his feelings ever being returned (or even fully understood).

Clive/Forsyth
D – I’m neutral on it

Basically the same as Clive/Lukas except that Forsyth comes across as less serious and less emotionally vulnerable in his hero worship so it doesn’t feel as cruel. Also, Python exists. Forsyth may be much more likely to want to pursue something definite – a manly military romance, most likely – but I still don’t see Clive going along with it to any satisfactory degree. Mutual handjobs in the dark while they’re both thinking of someone else, at most.

Clive/Python
C – Not a bad ship

In terms of socio-political ideologies this is even more screwed up than Les Mis’s defining m/m ship Enjolras/Grantaire, but as with anything involving Python it would undoubtedly be fun though very likely lacking in real substance. Considering the aforementioned ideological conflict that’s probably for the best, really. Python would definitely kiss and tell, if only to get Forsyth riled up in more ways than one.

Curious on your thoughts on Clive

How I feel about this character

The lord of mediocrity, but that’s the joke. He’s amusing on that meta level, but not very fun to use or fun to consider in-universe as someone who ends the game much better off than quite a few more engaging characters.

All the people I ship romantically with this character

None of the half dozen or so people who want to bone him deserve someone so unimpressive. For whatever reason though Mathilda seems perfectly equipped to handle his fawning, and as sappy as their conversations are I can’t really see breaking them up for anyone else. I could also see Fernand and him hitting it off in a clandestine way at some point during their adolescence, though by the time of the game that’s all in the past and only Fernand is still dwelling on it.

My non-romantic OTP for this character

Clair, and maybe Forsyth if he can manage to calm down. His relationship with Lukas is too fraught with his subordinate’s unfulfilled desire to ever be something I’d see as healthy.

My unpopular opinion about this character

None about him specifically, though I do take his side more than most people in his supports with Python. It helps that the game does too.

One thing I wish would happen / had happened with this character in canon

I want more elaboration on his four villas. Are they seasonally themed? Are they spread throughout Zofia so as to best capture particular vistas? Does he get to keep them after the game? Is Clive unworthy of them? At least we know the answer to that last one.

agoddamn:

I still don’t know how I feel about Clive. I thought his support with Python was absolutely great but it felt like it ended on “let’s agree to disagree” and I couldn’t tell how much I’m supposed to dislike that. Of course not every support has to end in sunshine and roses but I didn’t feel like the writing goal there was to make him purposely hateable. But “let’s agree to disagree [that you’re a person]” isn’t something you can just leave at that, you know? Clive saying he’s still classist at heart is something that seems like it ought to be at the forefront of his development, not shuffled away into a non-conclusion.

Clive and SoV in general offered a much more nuanced take on classism rather than a certain other setting where all the prejudiced nobles are mustache-twirling villains. *coughs* You can throw Clive in the shallow end of what could be called the anti-Camus group: prejudiced, immoral, or downright evil people who are for whatever reason allied with the good guys. In his case his worldview is even reinforced in the end with Alm being revealed as the son of an emperor and then becoming king himself. The only sour note for Clive (assuming no one dies) is that his sister marries one of Alm’s peasant buddies, but we’re meant to chalk that up to her wild and carefree nature or something like that. Python’s cynicism is proven right in the end too, because there will always be people privileged by wealth and status (and, in the world of FE, dragon blood) and even in victory over evil the world will continue to uphold that privilege.

I think the really engaging question is why Clive and Clair’s classism is allowed to slide and yet Fernand’s requires an apology and his death to merit (possible) redemption. When it comes down to it Fernand was just louder and more aggressive with his bigotry, and he (unknowingly) bet on the wrong Rigelian heir. I can’t even call his classism straightforward villainy either, because he’s the only character who has a personal reason to hate peasants, irrational though it may be, and isn’t just upholding the status quo.